I don't have May SOS, so would someone care to briefly state how Craig Anderton uses Harbal on bass?
Thanks
Anderton Harbal on bass
I second this motion
I've tried to find out about this one, too, but the article is not available on the net and the issue is sold out or something.
Pretty please - anybody?
J
Pretty please - anybody?
JHere is the articlehar-bal wrote:I sent a message to Craig Anderton, so he will answer this one for us.SUPERDUDE wrote:I havent heard of this. Is it for bass guitar?
Cheers
Earle
http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?storyCode=14193
Cheers
Earle
Thanks!!!
So it was in the EQ... no wonder I could not find it in the SOS... 
Well, what ends well is well.
Thanks a bunch!
J
Well, what ends well is well.
Thanks a bunch!
J
I hope he uses Har-Bal more & more, with his ears (and gets more accurate gear)... Then he will eventually realize that ALL power for mastering of the spectrum to make it "transport" well lies in EQing.
It's disgusting that he even mentions multi-band compression. Other than for specialty limiting of a few over-bearing transients in a track, this is just a method to cheat your way to a good sounding spectral "balance", and it actually fights against the way that Har-Bal is used to balance harmonics, because of how band-processors work by design. This is especially true if it's a multi-band compressor running into a broadband brickwall limiter, as opposed to a multi-band mix-sum brickwall limiter.
However it's really great that he's tooting Har-Bal's horn in EQ. Someone who's actually a mastering engineer should review it for them.
I'm going to post my mastering chain to the thread for that, and I'll also be posting some examples (with before & after) in the shameless forum. You might find my approach refreshing as I've not read about anyone on these forums using Har-Bal in quite the way I do, even though some may already be doing what I'm doing.
It's disgusting that he even mentions multi-band compression. Other than for specialty limiting of a few over-bearing transients in a track, this is just a method to cheat your way to a good sounding spectral "balance", and it actually fights against the way that Har-Bal is used to balance harmonics, because of how band-processors work by design. This is especially true if it's a multi-band compressor running into a broadband brickwall limiter, as opposed to a multi-band mix-sum brickwall limiter.
However it's really great that he's tooting Har-Bal's horn in EQ. Someone who's actually a mastering engineer should review it for them.
I'm going to post my mastering chain to the thread for that, and I'll also be posting some examples (with before & after) in the shameless forum.
You might find my approach refreshing as I've not read about anyone on these forums using Har-Bal in quite the way I do, even though some may already be doing what I'm doing.I'm interested to see your mastering chain and hear your before and after takes. Always good to know how other people tackle the problem. It just gives a new perspective that you don't get when working in isolation.
Interested to hear your views on the MB compression thing too. I'm no fan of the technology, particularly when used to extreme. Hopefully in a year I'll have an alternative and more precise approach to the problem integrated into Har-Bal. Best not say too much about it though, just in case my theorising turns out to be rubbish. Time will tell.
Cheers,
Paavo.
Interested to hear your views on the MB compression thing too. I'm no fan of the technology, particularly when used to extreme. Hopefully in a year I'll have an alternative and more precise approach to the problem integrated into Har-Bal. Best not say too much about it though, just in case my theorising turns out to be rubbish. Time will tell.
Cheers,
Paavo.
Interesting about your comment on MB & Har-Bal. IDT DVP anyone?
So yeh, I'm working on a reply to the mastering chain thread as I type.
I'm also going to post a tutorial on how to use the intuitMatch & intuitCursor features with a special "ideal" spectral response curve that I have. I'm sure you may have known that you can load a reference from *only* an ANL file, by dragging the ANL file onto Har-Bal while an audio file is already opened. Well what I did was created WAV of 10 minutes of max intensity white noise. Then I opened that up in Har-Bal, and changed the already very smooth spectrum to be perfectly flat. Then I altered it with low-shelf (to drop off under 20Hz), high-shelf (to target above 1kHz and have it reduce to -12db less by 20kHz), and then I used the parametric cursor to shape the smoothness of the curving downwards. Then I rendered the results. And finally, I opened the resulting WAV into Har-Bal and it then creates the ANL cache file.
So basically, open a new WAV, drag the special ANL onto it, and use the intuitCursor between where the lows drop fast, and the highs drop fast. I've found that it also can sound even better by doing a full intuitMatch one time after the cursor too.
Here's a graphic example of what I'm talking about, including the flat ANL curve I made, this is an especially harsh drum & bass song that the artist attempted to master on his own (after myself doing a few demo masters for him)
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/examples/w ... pz0red.gif
and mp3s... original
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/examples/w ... 20Rain.mp3
and har-bal output from the screenshot
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/examples/w ... pz0red.mp3
I just discovered the dragging the ANL thing today, and then was amazed at how good intuitMatch & the intuitMatch cursor are at gracefully doing what they do from my special ANL file... I'm still pretty excited and amazed that it has worked so amazingly good. You guys (and everyone giving your suggestions and help) deserve so much credit for this.
So yeh, I'm working on a reply to the mastering chain thread as I type.
I'm also going to post a tutorial on how to use the intuitMatch & intuitCursor features with a special "ideal" spectral response curve that I have. I'm sure you may have known that you can load a reference from *only* an ANL file, by dragging the ANL file onto Har-Bal while an audio file is already opened. Well what I did was created WAV of 10 minutes of max intensity white noise. Then I opened that up in Har-Bal, and changed the already very smooth spectrum to be perfectly flat. Then I altered it with low-shelf (to drop off under 20Hz), high-shelf (to target above 1kHz and have it reduce to -12db less by 20kHz), and then I used the parametric cursor to shape the smoothness of the curving downwards. Then I rendered the results. And finally, I opened the resulting WAV into Har-Bal and it then creates the ANL cache file.
So basically, open a new WAV, drag the special ANL onto it, and use the intuitCursor between where the lows drop fast, and the highs drop fast. I've found that it also can sound even better by doing a full intuitMatch one time after the cursor too.
Here's a graphic example of what I'm talking about, including the flat ANL curve I made, this is an especially harsh drum & bass song that the artist attempted to master on his own (after myself doing a few demo masters for him)
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/examples/w ... pz0red.gif
and mp3s... original
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/examples/w ... 20Rain.mp3
and har-bal output from the screenshot
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/examples/w ... pz0red.mp3
I just discovered the dragging the ANL thing today, and then was amazed at how good intuitMatch & the intuitMatch cursor are at gracefully doing what they do from my special ANL file... I'm still pretty excited and amazed that it has worked so amazingly good. You guys (and everyone giving your suggestions and help) deserve so much credit for this.
Actually, I must say that what you have done is pretty clever and something I never thought of.
The problem with intuitMatch from one track to the next is that the peaks and dips are usually at completely different frequencies and although intuitMatch does it's best at not trying to distort the peaks of the track by the reference it will invariably do so to some extent. By constructing an idealised reference as you have you are ensuring that will not happen. Clever!
Haven't had a chance to listen to your before and after examples but I have to say that the graphic looks like a pretty good modification without distorting the overall shape too much. I'll have a listen a little bit later and maybe try the technique out myself.
Cheers,
Paavo.
The problem with intuitMatch from one track to the next is that the peaks and dips are usually at completely different frequencies and although intuitMatch does it's best at not trying to distort the peaks of the track by the reference it will invariably do so to some extent. By constructing an idealised reference as you have you are ensuring that will not happen. Clever!
Haven't had a chance to listen to your before and after examples but I have to say that the graphic looks like a pretty good modification without distorting the overall shape too much. I'll have a listen a little bit later and maybe try the technique out myself.
Cheers,
Paavo.
Here's the anl file I used: (right-click, save-as)
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/anlfiles/ideal_curve_1.anl
After trying it on about 20 tracks now, it doesn't seem to always get close to greatness with 1 click of the intuitMatch, or just one selective swipe of the intuitMatch cursor... but i've found if you first try the intuitMatch, and undo if it doesn't make an improvement overall, and then try intuitMatch cursor over parts that look and/or sound like they are deviating "too much" from the curve angles. start with nearly full bandwidth swipes, and then trying progressively less bandwidth per swipe, and undoing what doesn't improve a lot... within a minute it can get much better, and then all that may be needed from there is slight adjustments to bring up/down things that look & sound like they are jutting out.
i found 2 tracks that didn't sound good with any intuitMatch on the lowest bass note primary freq or below, because it was gaining it down a lot. it was not far from a sine-wave sound. so...
i've also already thought about "biasing" the curve.... it really depends on what is intended to do with it. but for now i've been thinking that it's probably better to leave it flat like it is, because it is a GREAT visual-aid when doing the last wide peak/valley adjusting. but it's something i'll wait on and think about. i don't need to drive very fast to get there eventually.
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/anlfiles/ideal_curve_1.anl
After trying it on about 20 tracks now, it doesn't seem to always get close to greatness with 1 click of the intuitMatch, or just one selective swipe of the intuitMatch cursor... but i've found if you first try the intuitMatch, and undo if it doesn't make an improvement overall, and then try intuitMatch cursor over parts that look and/or sound like they are deviating "too much" from the curve angles. start with nearly full bandwidth swipes, and then trying progressively less bandwidth per swipe, and undoing what doesn't improve a lot... within a minute it can get much better, and then all that may be needed from there is slight adjustments to bring up/down things that look & sound like they are jutting out.
i found 2 tracks that didn't sound good with any intuitMatch on the lowest bass note primary freq or below, because it was gaining it down a lot. it was not far from a sine-wave sound. so...
i've also already thought about "biasing" the curve.... it really depends on what is intended to do with it. but for now i've been thinking that it's probably better to leave it flat like it is, because it is a GREAT visual-aid when doing the last wide peak/valley adjusting. but it's something i'll wait on and think about. i don't need to drive very fast to get there eventually.
Was Wondering if you have done anything else with this curve, or are you gonna just leave as is. I have been using the curve with great results so far. Regardsuncajesse wrote:Here's the anl file I used: (right-click, save-as)
http://ictybtihky.com/harbal/anlfiles/ideal_curve_1.anl
After trying it on about 20 tracks now, it doesn't seem to always get close to greatness with 1 click of the intuitMatch, or just one selective swipe of the intuitMatch cursor... but i've found if you first try the intuitMatch, and undo if it doesn't make an improvement overall, and then try intuitMatch cursor over parts that look and/or sound like they are deviating "too much" from the curve angles. start with nearly full bandwidth swipes, and then trying progressively less bandwidth per swipe, and undoing what doesn't improve a lot... within a minute it can get much better, and then all that may be needed from there is slight adjustments to bring up/down things that look & sound like they are jutting out.
i found 2 tracks that didn't sound good with any intuitMatch on the lowest bass note primary freq or below, because it was gaining it down a lot. it was not far from a sine-wave sound. so...
i've also already thought about "biasing" the curve.... it really depends on what is intended to do with it. but for now i've been thinking that it's probably better to leave it flat like it is, because it is a GREAT visual-aid when doing the last wide peak/valley adjusting. but it's something i'll wait on and think about. i don't need to drive very fast to get there eventually.
"Who's worried about the marsh when your up to your waist in Alligators"
I think that for now I'll just leave it as is. It's such a good tool, especially once you get used to looking at it, and shaping stuff around it... that to have different versions of it might not be ideal in some ways.
I don't think anyone should be using it completely automatically (or har-bal v2 itself for that matter). so i don't think it would be beneficial to make a specially curved version of it, without doing a LOT of testing. and i have a feeling that in version 3 the algorithms for the automated stuff will be even better.
I don't think anyone should be using it completely automatically (or har-bal v2 itself for that matter). so i don't think it would be beneficial to make a specially curved version of it, without doing a LOT of testing. and i have a feeling that in version 3 the algorithms for the automated stuff will be even better.